Curse

faraaz · Jun 19, 2009, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megas XLR

I was just curious, the thing that worries me the most about Enduring Scythe is that it has no IAS.

That, coupled with critical strikes (350 damage crits in HM are fun) is why I believe Assassins are better Scythe wielders & DPS'ers.

*Cue Forgotton200's bile of personal attacks which for some reason Guru mods find acceptable reading material*

Forgotton200 · Jun 19, 2009, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

That, coupled with critical strikes (350 damage crits in HM are fun) is why I believe Assassins are better Scythe wielders & DPS'ers.

I could do comparable DPS on the warrior on the same target if I build-war. I find it funny that the only thing you can prove is either hitting MoD (lol) or a undead with holy damage, "insert here", to prove your point. I'm not impressed by "crit" scythe, you realise this is a team game? Which means someone in my group is spamming "GftE!" for up to 100% crit.

Quote:

"Go for the Eyes!": decreased recharge time to 0 seconds; increased chance to land a critical hit to 30...86...100%.

Feel free to call me Crit scythe warrior.

Edit:
On a side note, lol'd at another assassin PvP nerf today. Palm strike recharge at 7 means you can't carry 3 duals with 2 off anymore. Ha ha.

Edited by Cebe: Removed inflammatory content.

Kendel · Jun 19, 2009, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megas XLR

I was really unclear in that post, sorry, I actually meant between Assassin and Warrior.

Erm, they're pretty even, they both get advantages at different things but the Sins is just easier to run with imo. And since traversc is obviously going to bring up some stupid arguement about how the Warrior could do this while tanking a Slavers mob and somehow not being affected at all by Clumsiness spam, Insideous Parasite, Shadow of Fear, etc it wouldn't be worth trying to.

PvE Endurance isn't a stance so you can run Flail (or Burst of Agression), which isn't as commonly removable as enchantments. You also use a +30-40 attack skill pretty much every swing and get bonus AP everytime which makes up for the lack of crit rate. The problem is energy is very tight if you bring Aura of Holy Might which is pretty much necessary if you want to really compete damage wise*, if you then want to add Asuran Scan your even more tight for energy. So the Warrior may be able to get more damage thanks to Strength but thats only if he criticals while using a skill.

*a quick test w/ and w/o Aura at 0 Str, Wild Blowing, 80 w/o, 139 w/, 16 Str, 95 w/o 165 w/
and for the Sin, 80 w/o skills, 127 w/ Scan, 139 w/ Aura, 221 w/ Aura + Scan
With Rank 12 Kurzick and Rank 5 Asuran.

Picuso · Jun 19, 2009, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

PvE Endurance isn't a stance so you can run Flail (or Burst of Agression),

QFT. It's not the first time I see someone thinking that Warriors Endurance(PvE) = Warriors Endurance(PvP)

Schmerdro · Jun 19, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

I got 178 DPS over 157 seconds [...] I'd like to see anything else come close to these numbers.

I got 162 damage per second, over the course of 87 seconds. Keep in mind that is armor-ignoring damage from longbow range.

And now, let the dick-waving contest continue!

MercenaryKnight · Jun 19, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

I am also pretty sure that you could have a higher dps by using a form of spirit's strength ritualist/dervish or even perhaps a vow of strength dervish build.

It kind of boils down to this. A warrior can be the first to rush in and take aggro and start dps early. Not really any pre-protection needed because of the armor. An assassin can not be the first one to rush in and tank without sacrificing damage skills.

They can both do great damage non the less but it's a balance between damage and protection. Warrior's can get more protection from armor, shields and their insignias. Assassin can get some as well but not as much as warrior. Assassins have to devote skill use to survivability, that's the main difference.

Yes we could argue that you could micromanage heroes to precast protective spirit and other things to keep you alive. But then you could still probably find a different gimmick build like spirit's strength rt/d that could out dps both warriors and assassins.

TryingToVanquish · Jun 19, 2009, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I am also pretty sure that you could have a higher dps by using a form of spirit's strength ritualist/dervish or even perhaps a vow of strength dervish build.

It kind of boils down to this. A warrior can be the first to rush in and take aggro and start dps early. Not really any pre-protection needed because of the armor. An assassin can not be the first one to rush in and tank without sacrificing damage skills.

They can both do great damage non the less but it's a balance between damage and protection. Warrior's can get more protection from armor, shields and their insignias. Assassin can get some as well but not as much as warrior. Assassins have to devote skill use to survivability, that's the main difference.

Yes we could argue that you could micromanage heroes to precast protective spirit and other things to keep you alive. But then you could still probably find a different gimmick build like spirit's strength rt/d that could out dps both warriors and assassins.

Love the idea but would it work? I'm in the process of making a Rit (GREAT update!). In the front line with a scythe that has only 60AL doesn't seem nice to me though.

speedy21589 · Jun 20, 2009, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TryingToVanquish

Love the idea but would it work? I'm in the process of making a Rit (GREAT update!). In the front line with a scythe that has only 60AL doesn't seem nice to me though.

This is going to sound insane, but I've been running around using a hundred blades build on my ele lately (because I'm just that bored of running a "normal" build and because microing mark of pain on a hero with it is just hilarious), and my survivability isn't terrible. I've vanquished a few EoTN zones doing this.

Microing PS (and sometimes, SoA) on yourself when you aggro is not terribly difficult, and does wonders for keeping you alive against the initial blast.

[Also, I guess I should note that I have armor of mist on my bar, which also helps, but when it runs out (or gets stripped) I usually don't bother to recast it, and I haven't really had any problems. Also, I'm not making any argument about my DPS, I'm pretty sure it's subpar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

A warrior can be the first to rush in and take aggro and start dps early. Not really any pre-protection needed because of the armor.

Maybe it's just me, but I've had my fair share of times on my warrior when I aggroed without preprotting and exploded.

RadaArashi · Jun 20, 2009, 05:10 AM // 05:10

So a warrior has the advantage cause it takes him 2 seconds less (the 2 seconds it takes to put up Critical Agility and Critical Defenses/Assassin's Remedy) than it does the assassin before touching the mobs with your aggro bubble? I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is, specially in HM where even Warriors need to wait to get a pre-prot, lest they wanna leeroy.

Forgotton200 · Jun 20, 2009, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadaArashi

So a warrior has the advantage cause it takes him 2 seconds less (the 2 seconds it takes to put up Critical Agility and Critical Defenses/Assassin's Remedy) than it does the assassin before touching the mobs with your aggro bubble? I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is, specially in HM where even Warriors need to wait to get a pre-prot, lest they wanna leeroy.

If you think that's the only advantage warrior can get, you better just step outside of this discussion because we have nothing more to discuss. I'll tell you what you should do: Play the game. I'm not sure how many times we superior front line has to repeat ourselves, do a search for yourself if you must know.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 20, 2009, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TryingToVanquish

Love the idea but would it work? I'm in the process of making a Rit (GREAT update!). In the front line with a scythe that has only 60AL doesn't seem nice to me though.

There used to be a build on pvxwiki somewhere about great dwarf army. 2 Spirit's strength rt/d with greater dwarf weapon to cast on each other could achieve great damage potential.

If you didn't take greater dwarf weapon you could toss in greater dwarf armor for a cover enchant for Spirit's Strength and added armor.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team..._Dwarf_Scythes

Similar to the /d variant and just throwing in Spirit's strength/ insert random weapon.

In some areas you can be pretty much instagibbed with damage whether your armor is a warrior's or not. But for the most part your gonna have protection skills for areas to keep you a live.

Feel free to test out gimmicky builds to see if an even higher dps is possible.

Kendel · Jun 20, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadaArashi

So a warrior has the advantage cause it takes him 2 seconds less (the 2 seconds it takes to put up Critical Agility and Critical Defenses/Assassin's Remedy) than it does the assassin before touching the mobs with your aggro bubble? I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is, specially in HM where even Warriors need to wait to get a pre-prot, lest they wanna leeroy.

Indeed, ele skills hit incredibly hard even with 110 AL and if your running in first your getting EVERYTHING the mob has thrown at you. Sadly Forgotton just doesn't seem to understand this and throws down his dummy and starts insulting everyone (as proven by his last few posts). The only way a Warrior is going to compete for DPS with a Sin is by running Warriors Endurance Scythe and that requires Aura of Holy Might too. Its too bad that half the posters here seem to be attempting to warp the definition of 'maintained DPS' to 'maintainable DPS while tanking mobs with excessive enchantment removal and curiously no anti-melee/stance/adren'. In which case your a tank not a damage dealer.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 20, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Since I've had to delete the last ~10 posts all due to meaningless flameraging, I'm just going to close this.